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Email Zip The Tea Party Debate Smackdown Grace Wyler and Zeke Miller | Sep. 12, 2011, 10:44 PM | 3,752 | 43 A A A x Email Article From To Email Sent! You have successfully emailed the post.
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Eight Republican presidential hopefuls went head to head in Tampa Monday night for the second major debate of the 2012 primary season.
The far-right Tea Party movement took center stage at the event, which was hosted by CNN and sponsored by the Tea Party Express, an umbrella advocacy group that represents a loose collection of grassroots affiliates nationwide.
Social policy and national security took a backseat to the issues that concern most Tea Party followers — the economy and the size of the federal government.
The debate highlighted the differences between frontrunner Texas Gov. Rick Perry and the more moderate former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney. The two squared off on nearly every issue — though Romney came out of it slightly stronger. Perry was hit from the right as well, pressed by Rep. Michele Bachmann, Rep. Ron Paul, and former Sen. Rick Santorum on immigration, the HPV vaccine, and his Texas jobs record.
Former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman attempted to get noticed tonight, but surrendered the high ground, with poorly-received jokes. Bachmann managed to prove her relevance — reasserting her position as the arch-social conservative in the race. Paul seemed to defend al Qaeda's rationale for attacking the United States on 9/11 — erasing any gains his campaign made toward the mainstream.
While the bulk of the questions came from CNN moderator Wolf Blitzer, the candidates also fielded questions from members of the audience and 31 different Tea Party groups from around the country.
Our liveblog is below:
Auto-refresh: On | Off Sort: Oldest First | Newest First 10:15 PM | And it's over9:50 PM | TEA PARTY LIGHTENING ROUND!What Would You Bring To The White House:
Santorum: A new bedroom
Gingrich: Ballet and music and some other stuff
Paul: "A bushel of common sense" and a course on Austrian economics
Perry: "I'm going to bring the most beautiful and thoughtful First Lady this naion has ever seen"
Bachmann: The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution (we think they have that covered)
Romney: Copies Perry, said he'd bring his wife
Cain: "A sense of humor because Americans are too uptight"
Huntsman: Ever out to prove he is the coolest candidate, Huntsman said he'd bring his Harley.
Santorum accuses Paul of blaming the U.S. for 9/11 attacks: "Someone who is running for President of the United States should not be parroting Osama bin Laden."
Paul's response gets huge boos from the audience.
Goes after Perry on immigration: "For Rick to say that you can't secure the border is pretty much a treasonous comment."
Perry looked stunned and then burst out laughing.
Bachmann says Texas DREAM act is the same as legislation being considered by Congressional Democrats. Perry responds that it's a states' rights issue.
9:29 PM | In response to Bachmann's attack, the Romney camp just emailed a bulletpointed statement explaining his views on Obamacare.9:22 PM | Bachmann: "I'M COMMITTED TO REPEALING OBAMACARE"Accuses Perry and Romney of not being "committed" because they support state's right to implement the individual mandate.
9:19 PM | Social conservatives go at it over Perry's HPV vaccine order.Bachmann got the most facetime of the night so far when she was asked her opinion on Perry's executive order requiring pre-teen girls to be vaccinated for HPV, a decision Perry said tonight that he regrets.
Bachmann's relatively innocuous answer about parent's rights got more heated after Perry's response deftly pivoted to his support for "life." Not to be outdone on the pro-life front, Bachmann accused Perry of issuing the order as a political favor to a campaign donor.
An indication that Romney has gained little ground with the Tea Party, despite his recent efforts to court their support.
Perry, on the other hand, clearly has the home court advantage — he has gotten warm response sfor a lot of his answers.
Tea Party debate crowd goes wild.
8:53 PM | Zing! Jon Huntsman goes after Romney AND Perry in one breath."I know everything is bigger in Texas, and Rick likes to talk that way, and that all the smart people reside in Massachusetts, but in Utah...we were No. 1 in job growth."
He went on to say Utah was the "best managed" state when he was governor.
After giving Texas props for job creation, Romney says "If you are dealt four aces, you aren't necessarily a good poker player" (referring to Texas being a Republican, right-to-work state with rich energy resources.
Perry responds: "I was gonna say Mitt you were doing pretty good until you got to poker."
Then Ron Paul jumps in, saying Perry's record is "not quite" as good as he claims. Adds he doesn't want to make Perry mad because "he might raise my taxes."
This one goes to Huntsman first. Says unemployment is a "human tragedy," then outlines his plan for tax and regulatory reform. Then he goes back to the Cobain theme, saying America needs to be weaned off its "heroin-like addiction" to foreign oil.
8:37 PM | Wolf says now its on to "jobs, jobs, jobs."8:36 PM | Bachmann emails: "I love senior citizens."The Bachmann campaign sent out an email to supporters reminding them how much the congresswoman loves senior citizens. Via the email:
"Social Security and Medicare provide a safety net to millions of Americans. This is a system that many Americans have paid into their whole life. America needs to keep its promise to senior citizens.
Congresswoman Michele Bachmann recently told an interviewer, 'I love senior citizens. I care about them. My mom is 80 years old. My dad is 87. And I know right now we have trouble. This is at a time when Medicare is grossly short on money coming in, because we know that nine years from now, that possible trust fund for Medicare could be flat broke.'"
Godfather's CEO Herman Cain brings up the Chilean retirement model — again.
Jon Huntsman says "Nothing should be off the table — expect maybe the drama," but then makes an odd Kurt Cobain reference we can only assume meant that Mitt Romney's book "No Apologies" should be called "All Apologies."
Former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum rounds it out by saying the other candidates should be "with him" on Social Security: "I was a Republican conservative from a blue state leading the charge on social security reform." Needless to say it falls flat. On to the next question.
Perry tells Romney to stop "scaring seniors," and the crowd goes wild. Romney fires back that calling Social Security a Ponzi scheme was what scared seniors in the first place.
The two devolve into an argument over the semantics of "criminal" vs. "Ponzi scheme."
Perry promises seniors will keep getting their Social Security checks. He stands by his "Ponzi scheme" comparison:
"This is a broken system, it has been called a Ponzi scheme long before me"
Goes to Bachmann. She says Obama stole $500 billion from Medicare to fund Obamacare.
8:13 PM | Bachmann, Perry highlight Tea Party street cred in opening statements.Bachmann points out she's the founder of the House's Tea Party Caucus.
8:12 PM | Opening statements from the candidates.Huntsman kicks it off.
8:06 PM | CNN is billing this as the "fight for the heart and soul of the GOP."This seems like an odd statement given that the Tea Party is generally considered a fringe movement.
8:05 PM | CNN introduces the Tea Party groups who will be submitting questions tonight.Includes groups from battleground states like Virginia and Ohio.
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Zeke Miller is a politics reporter at Business Insider. Contact: e-mail: AIM: zekejmiller Work Phone: (202) 527-9353 SMS: (516) 581-9301 Subscribe to his RSS feed | twitter feed View his Google+ profile Recent PostsONCE AGAIN: Audience At GOP...WOW: Perry Doubles Down On ...TEXT: Obama's Jobs Plan The Water Cooler
Receive email updates on new comments!cvszEmail43 Comments 8 19 Flag as Offensive Nice Bias Heading on Sep 12, 8:13 PM said: I am sure you are making the lefties happy with that one.The Obama is doing...best rename it the "You Next Presidential Debate" because that is what happens unless this well educated Harvard genius called Obama can get any of his Ivory Tower economic tricks to work...which he apparently can't. Reply 11 6 Flag as Offensive Rev Trask on Sep 12, 8:46 PM said: @Nice Bias Heading: It's hard to get anything done when the GOP-controlled do-nothing Congress just says "no", isn't it? Reply 9 13 Flag as Offensive Straw Man Argument on Sep 12, 8:49 PM said: @Rev Trask: Bad ideas from the Democrats are not passed, correct. We, the majority put the GOP in charge to block Obama. Sorry you hate Democracy. Reply 6 0 Flag as Offensive jshock on Sep 12, 9:17 PM said: @Nice Bias Heading: I'm just waiting for what they say on jobs. I'm sure its going to be much different than the normal. Cut Tax, Regulations on Business, Payroll tax cut, hiring incentives.
How many times have we heard that
http://www.dailyjobcuts.com
- Reply 12 1 Flag as Offensive NoSingleOne on Sep 12, 9:35 PM said: @Nice Bias Heading: Why do conservatards whine endlessly about any description that is less than "The Greatest Thing on Earth" when talking about a Republican? I am no fan of liberals, but at least they no longer pretend Obama is the Messiah like you guys do when talking about Perry, Romney, Bachmann, Palin, Paul et al.
You have a *very* flawed set of candidates with very few new ideas...just like the Obamatrons. As an libertarian-leaning Independent, Ron Paul is the only one who is even remotely appealing. Perry and Romney even pretending to be libertarians is a joke.
Grow a pair and acknowledge that if any of these jokers win, it's because the American public views your chosen one as being (barely) the lesser of two evils compared to Obama. Reply 2 1 Flag as Offensive Beltway Greg on Sep 12, 9:36 PM said: @jshock: Amazing. Perry caught HPV from a $5K hooker? I'm glad I tuned in to the debates.
BTW, this box of puppies hasn't a chance. This is why Einstein/Michael Faraday/Enrique Ferme invented the channel changer? Not quite. Reply 2 5 Flag as Offensive
Bunts Singh on Sep 12, 9:45 PM said: @Nice Bias Heading: EASY VICTORY FOR OBAMAThese Jokers aint got nothing on him. Reply 3 8 Flag as Offensive Beltway Greg on Sep 12, 10:00 PM said: @Bunts Singh: I have a few questions for the Tea Party members.
a. Is it hard to write with your robe on?
b. Are the hoods custom made or do you have to adjust the eyeholes?
c. Do you go naked under your sheets? Reply 2 6 Flag as Offensive zuckface stocks on Sep 12, 8:19 PM said: here's how you fix the economy
http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/926530-stock_creeper/215857-gop-debate-the-focus-needs-to-be-on-stabilization-pro-growth
It's too bad we don;t have the same leadership we had 2000 as we do now. The Chinese had to bailout Greece..lol no one else has the balls to do anything Reply 1 1 Flag as Offensive RightLies on Sep 12, 9:44 PM said: @zuckface stocks: The Tea Party is trying to sell America on decentralized federal government with power pass to the states. The name for that is called a Confederacy. It was a bad idea in 1860 and it is a bad idea today.
http://rightlies.com/post/2011/09/08/Tea-Party-Policy-equals-Confederacy.aspx Reply 3 15 Flag as Offensive Gordon What are these? Strikes! Earn three of them in a month, and you'll be sent to the Penalty Box for 24 hours. How do you earn strikes? Write comments that our editors kick to the Bleachers. Want to get rid of the strikes and start fresh? Write excellent comments that our editors promote to the Board Room. on Sep 12, 8:35 PM said: i like Romney. the guy is super smart, has unquestionable business experience, is an optimist, and he's a likable good guy and a good family man. AND he's electable and he can beat Obama. Reply 7 3 Flag as Offensive Mittens on Sep 12, 8:49 PM said: @Gordon: Hahahahahhaha....funniest thing I've heard all day. Did he mention the tax increase he signed in MA? Oh...forgot that one.....Or how about all the jobs he shipped overseas? Or how about all the companies he loaded with debt and bankrupted, while him and his Bain buddies took out millions for themselves....Oh, yeah....he must have forgotten to mention those things..... Reply 3 2 Flag as Offensive Arch E. Bunker on Sep 12, 8:56 PM said: @Gordon: ELECTABLE? Wait until the commercials come out.
Here's some stuff on Flipper, when he was a JOB-KILLER at Bain:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-20/romney-as-job-creator-clashes-with-bain-record-of-job-cuts.html
And here's why they call him Flipper (video that can be easily slotted into commericals):
http://multiplechoicemitt.com/
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/03/07/mitt_romney_political_lives/index.html?source=rss&aim=/politics/war_room Reply 11 5 Flag as Offensive Alejandro on Sep 12, 8:50 PM said: Ron Paul para Presidente!
The Empire is overextended and seriously vulnerable to a coordinated Chinese, Russian and fellow a-holes effort to bring us down economically if not militarily. Either we take radical steps now to stop the bleeding or we are toast in 10 years with Chinese Naval basis in our backyard. Reply 2 4 Flag as Offensive Singapura on Sep 12, 9:18 PM said: @Alejandro: Name calling doesn't change the fact that China, Russia and the rest of the world are tired of decades of American bullying. There IS no empire anymore, get used to it. Reply 0 0 Flag as Offensive Bernardo on Sep 12, 9:00 PM said: I think you mean "Chinese Naval BASES in our backyard."
But are you suggesting that China will occupy Mexico the same way the French did in the 19th century? Reply 4 5 Flag as Offensive Nino Brown on Sep 12, 9:07 PM said: So, that pistol-packing crony-cowboy STILL Thinks Ben Bernanke is "treasonous", but wont explain how? No wonder Karl Rove is nervous thinking about this neanderthal being at the top of the GOP ticket next year. Reply 6 0 Flag as Offensive KarmaPolice on Sep 12, 9:12 PM said: They are having another debate..???
Sorry my dog has a bowel movement around that time. Reply 6 1 Flag as Offensive Lando on Sep 12, 9:15 PM said: SO, the little woman from Minnesota just kicked Cowboy Rick Perry's a$$ on the failed gubmint-mandated vaccine in Texas plan. THAT's exactly what she needs to do to get back into his race that God told her to get into. Reply 5 1 Flag as Offensive Lou Sarah on Sep 12, 9:18 PM said: @Lando: You go Michelle! Perry's been rattled--kick his smelly butt all the way back to Texas! Reply 3 5 Flag as Offensive BigOnes on Sep 12, 9:23 PM said: "The far-right Tea Party movement will take center stage at the event". Freakin jackass writers!
I'd call anyone who wants a balanced Federal Budget a CENTRIST.
I hope Arianna is pleased with your bias. Reply 4 0 Flag as Offensive Stoker on Sep 12, 9:45 PM said: @BigOnes: So far tonite, it seems the main card has been between the beady-eyed cowboy from Texas and the little God-fearin` woman from Minnesota.
And neither one of them are "centrists". Defintiely very far-right. They make Reagan look "centrist". Reply 3 0 Flag as Offensive dfrank on Sep 12, 9:24 PM said: How does anybody know what Perry has been doing in Texas? His is the least transparent administration in recent Texas history. Reply 9 0 Flag as Offensive Doyle Lonnegan on Sep 12, 9:32 PM said: Obama can save lots of money by just running the video of this debate rather than paying for fancy commercials next year in swing states filled with independent voters.
The video of GOP rubes cheering the scenario of a poor person without coverage dying will send indies running back to Obama like they did in 2008 (most of them stayed home in 2010)..
Wild-eyed crony-cowboy Rick Perry's presence has driven the others to the far-right. Best news Obama's had in months. Reply 4 0 Flag as Offensive ggm on Sep 12, 9:41 PM said: @Doyle Lonnegan: Yeah, what the fuck was that? Plenty of people have lapses in coverage or have been denied treatment by their insurers. The GOP plan is to "just let them die".
These people are seriously demented! Reply 2 0 Flag as Offensive SSF on Sep 12, 10:43 PM said: @ggm: These people have been smoking tea laced with meth. Keep up the cheering for people to die and Obama will win at a walk. No soccer mom will vote for these people.
How did the GOP manage to derail itself so badly? Reply 0 0 Flag as Offensive pandering to bigots and sociopaths on Sep 13, 12:28 AM said: @SSF: The biggest laugh is that those folk also claim to be Christians for the most part. Teabaggers are not known for consistency. Reply 1 1 Flag as Offensive Robert on Sep 12, 9:33 PM said: Bachman is back! Reply 1 0 Flag as Offensive IndianaJohn on Sep 12, 9:34 PM said: Great looking schedule.
"Driver, take me to that spic n' span German Bar that has 10 great beers on tap and no TV." Reply 5 1 Flag as Offensive Jose Jiminez on Sep 12, 9:36 PM said: Perry's biggest weakness with the red-meat crowd has been raised: Illegal immigration. Seems Perry is a bit soft on that when it comes to in-state tuition. And Bachmann just kicked his sorry ass again. Reply 9 1 Flag as Offensive Truetexan on Sep 12, 9:40 PM said: Being from and living in Texas all my life I have seen this state literally go to heck since George W. had been in office! Now Gov Perry has nearly ended all oportunities for anyone to even make enough to pay their bills! Texas is great if you like working and retiring from say.. 7/11 or Walmart! What a joke!!! Reply 2 0 Flag as Offensive Kel on Sep 12, 9:58 PM said: @Truetexan: Perry is done after tonight, even ass-eyed Bachmann made him look foolish. Reply 4 0 Flag as Offensive Chang on Sep 12, 9:51 PM said: Or you could get a coolie-wage, low-benefit, back-breaking job in the sweltering Texas oil fields. But with these clowns rariin` to raise Soc Security age to at least 70, you'd better be in good shape before you show up at that oil well, if you want to enjoy the golden years some day. Reply 11 0 Flag as Offensive Kel on Sep 12, 9:57 PM said: Rick Santorum still thinks that we were attacked on 9/11 because "they hate what America stands for", and a bunch of hicks Florida seem to agree with him. I thought we'd made more progress than that over the last decade
And then Ron Paul actually uses evidence, facts, and logic to prove that Rick Santorum and all the other jingoist are wrong, and he get's BOOED!!! Grow up you hicks, we weren't attacked by jealous countries who wanted revenge on the rich kids. Reply 3 1 Flag as Offensive Ben Marco on Sep 12, 10:01 PM said: @Kel: Forget it. These folks have been brainwashed by the best (talk radio and Faux News), in much the same way our POW's were brainwashed by the Red Chinese in North Korea--by non-stop immersion and repetition of their talking points.... Reply 5 0 Flag as Offensive Jim on Sep 12, 10:16 PM said: @Kel: It's also amazing how everybody on the stage professed to be about individual liberty, small government, and getting government out of our lives....
....but when it comes to military spending, foreign adventurism and expanding the number of military bases around the world (nobody can explain why, after the collapse of the Soviet Union) they're just as 'big government' and lavishing dollars on Washington programs as any Democrat.
Ditto on social issues; again, all about small government and states' rights....until it comes to social issues, and then the government has to step in to the privacy of your bedroom, or prevent consenting adults (gay dudes or chicks) from getting married.
So, yeah, they're (except for Ron Paul, and I'm not even a follower of his) only for small government for just stuff that suits them. For other things, not so much. Reply 0 1 Flag as Offensive bloody bill on Sep 12, 10:44 PM said: @Kel: Uhh......we got attacked by islamic fanatics moron.........Get a life. I can almost agree with Ron Paul on most of his liberterian views but then he goes nutter and loses me. Reply 2 0 Flag as Offensive Jim on Sep 12, 10:51 PM said: @bloody bill: It's bigger than that. Ron Paul is kind of nutter on certain things, but on things like foreign adventurism, he's totally right.
His point on military bases around the world: why keep spending billions maintaining bases in Germany, Japan, Greece, and every other Soviet era installation? Or building military relics that were intended for a Soviet military confrontation, but now makes no sense at all?
I stand by my point that most of these guys (and gal) are only about 'small government' for a small subset of issues. For everything else, they're just as 'big government socialist' as Obama. Reply 1 0 Flag as Offensive Jim on Sep 12, 11:30 PM said: @Kel: I can go on all night: any candidate that's for building a giant, border spanning fence isn't for "small, limited government".
We can debate the pros and cons of building a fence along the Mexican border, but there's nothing "limited government" about it.
So, all you pro giant-military, pro foreign bases and pro border fence guys, you all suck at the teat of big government as much as any government check welfare-queen. Reply 2 2 Flag as Offensive J.R. Wirth on Sep 12, 10:33 PM said: I liked Perry. The vaccine subject was B.S. What Perry should have told them was "hey we've got a lot of little sluts and Lolitas down there." I liked his comeback about siding with life.
Perry was the coolest kid at the party, no doubt. Reply 0 0 Flag as Offensive bloody bill on Sep 12, 10:36 PM said: What does any of this have to do with the Tea Party?? Reply 3 3 Flag as Offensive Jeccwwc on Sep 12, 11:41 PM said: I like how Ron Paul & the "Tea Party" militants in the audience cheer & support letting uninsured ill patients in a coma die.
What I love even more is where Paul advocates the spread of unlicensed doctors. His "argument" is: Let the "free market" decide which unlicensed doctors provide quality care - and which ones are out there just to cut up people. In this Third World scenario of Paul, the "market decides" by sending ill or injured patients to unlicensed doctors & who survives (and who gets killed).
We need to deport Ron Paul to a Third World jungle - for good. Reply 0 0 Flag as Offensive Just a quick question on Sep 13, 1:13 AM said: Newt Gingrich . . .
He's ALIVE???!!!!! Reply Join the discussion with Business Insider
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